Or atleast trying to. Trying to piece together some things that feel inconsistent, and some annoyances, and some reflections. All in one! … and I apologize on beforehand for any incoherencies and inconsistencies…oh, the irony!
One thing I don’t understand. What’s with the whiny children, little brothers and sisters, that’re present in almost every single manga and anime out there. Hell, even omnipresent or something like that. Omenipresent is more like it. They’re like the comical relief in western shows and movies, that omenipresent dead-weight that never brings anything but my loathing. I’m feverishly trying to think of a single kid that springs to mind that I enjoyed reading about, that I felt had a natural place in the series, and I continue to fail. Why oh why do they persist in having them there? Do the Japanese consider it awesome? Do the Japanese that are the prime audience for manga love the kids in these stories? Are the kids in these series meant for a far younger generation than the series is meant for to sell a few more issues? Do everyone but me love these mood-butchering characters?
Another thing about kids, or rather childishness; why on earth do anime and manga accept the most horrendous and childish arguments ever presented without some semblance of reply? “My family died, my poor sweet sister died, and I have nothing but revenge left to live for. Your pain is nothing compared to mine, NOTHING! I HURT MORE THAN YOU!” (Because all those other people that died and lost their families are weak and simple that won’t pick up arms to fight these bastards that fought to protect your country and ideals “just” because their loved ones died…).
The reply is more often than not “…[cricket](no idea why there’s this silence)…” or “…[blush](bullseye, you hurt more than me)….” or “…[sadface](you are so mean)…”. Wait, what? This is from ‘Gundam SEED Destiny‘ by the way. The emo-troll protagonist yawn-fest said something along those lines. The series that I had looked forward to seeing so much suddenly went into a lurch shortly after that as the (current) protagonist kept being 6 ways more hurt than Sasuke could ever be, 6 times as tormented, and 6 levels less awesome (which speaks volumes…). Atleast Kira came back later in the series, with a bang, and all was well - making the series the awesomefest I’d looked forward to.
You need only take a look at the latest movie ‘No Country For Old Men‘, the villain Chigurh (or Sugar /gloat). Throughout the entire movie the character didn’t change one spit, he was a mass of relentless malevolence from the first time we saw him, never yielding, never stopping, always moving on with the same constant focus and ideal - to get his job done. He was flawless, his methods infallible, and the whole thing was so thuroughly awesome I find myself thinking that this is the guy that should have been Darth Vader’s son instead of that crybaby Luke.
Anyways, my point is that there are characters that are enjoyable when they never change, or to be more precise, they can emerge as one of the strongest meetings in a book, movie or comic for a long time, if not ever. You see, Chigurh never changed throughout the movie. Alot of people claim that he changed in the ending when he showed kindness towards the kids after the crash. No change, bub, not at all. It was another side of him. He’d done the job, there was no reason to be anything but fair with the kid. The kid wasn’t a part of the job - insisting on paying for the shirt was just another extension of Chigurh’s values, or codex, whatever you wish to call it. Yet, what people jump at is that Chigurh looked human there, that he was changed by the crash, the feeling of mortality had “crashed down” on him. He’ll look mortal and “normal” if you completely ignore the fact that he was completely ignoring the pain in his own damned broken arm. No, Chigurh didn’t change one spit, and that’s why we’re awed by his character just like we felt a strange compelling compassion with the “hero” of the story as well. He didn’t change either. So why did we love these characters if all they did was keep doing the same stupid things the whole way through?
We keep reading idiotic mangas like Ranma 1/2 from the beginning to the end (the series was a smashing success commercially) despite the fact that the characters never really changed. We saw a few new abilities learned, we were introduced to a bunch of new characters, and there was always something new happening. Except for the characters changing. The characters were introduced one way, and I’ll be damned if we didn’t leave the series with the characters being the exact same way that they were introduced. To me this is one of the cases were my previous question doesn’t ring true, atleast personally. When I was done with the whole Ranma series I was so sodding tired of this series I was happy to put it down. The least thing the author could have done was giving us some sort of closure on the relationship between Ranma and Akane where they didn’t act like 5 year olds around each other.
Characters learning new moves and tricks are all nice and well, but over the course of such a massive manga as Ranma managed to be I would expect something more. I don’t expect a massive change, no, I expect to see a different side of the characters over the course of the story.
We all love roleplaying games, don’t we? We love getting that new sword, that new skill, that character for the party, even that castle or spell. That’s character development? Or is it character enhancement? Let’s take Neverwinter Nights 2 as an example here. The hero wakes up in a cave, utterly confused and estranged. He has no idea where he is, or what that mad woman is helping him for. Now, what happens with our character as we progress - he answers questions, breaks open locks, and kills stuff. At what point during the story-line does the character change? Do we really change the character when we answer this and that question, make this or that enemy, or do we just reveal different sides of him/her? If we were to go against what we’ve decided to do in the past, would we be changing it, or would we be acting out of some plan, eventually just revealing a side of ourselves? Learning new things, does that change us, or perhaps just the perspective. New information, new glasses, but the same person, nothing different internally?
Before I go off rambling completely incoherently I’ll get back on track - storytelling and characters. What I’m curious about is at which point in the story do we need a change in our characters, a real one, or a new development that’s expected or desired, before it’s growing stale?
In the case of Ranma we never see any change, and in the end of the series I was personally so tired of it all that I was happy to put it down. It was very much the same with Fruits Basket, there was so little change, yet the author kept droning on about the same things over and over again before, in the end, there was a breakthrough where the main character got his head out of his butt. In the case of Gundam SEED Destiny we had to watch it all the way through to the end before we saw emo-pansy cry over having lost everything, and I gloated. In the very end of the series he meets his nemesis and we see that he’s understood something, and suddenly for the first time in the whole series I actually found myself inching towards liking him.
I know I’ve been annoyed at the stale and unevolving Naruto that never really changes, nor really does anything smart. I know alot of characters that bother me for this reason, they never really change enough to be interesting, yet that might be the exact reason that I keep reading the story, something changes. Something changes enough for me to read on, waiting for the real change that I’m hoping for.
I lost my trail there, so I’ll leave it at that for now. I still wonder though, what do you see as a change, or development, in a character that breathes fresh air into it and takes the story onwards to another and entirely new level? When does a story and it’s characters grow stale and boring, or possibly stupid and annoying?
Interesting character change.. well that would be someone so totally broken. A man fueled with hatred, filled with disbelief and pain. The only thing that makes him smile is death and suffering. Doesent allow himself to feel anything, because feelings are for wimps, feelings are simply not needed. But somehow he doesnt commit suicide, mainly because of the slight hope of the delightful revenge his been dreaming about for years, fanticying about every day. But one day, someone suddenly comes into his life, and helps him, restores him, helping him back on his feets. Healing all his wounds, careing for him every day. He gave the man a new heart, and a new life filled with everlasting joy, indecribeable peace, and a hope for the future.
This someone came without any self amplyfing, egosentric toughts. He simply loved this broken man so much that he was willing to lay down his own life for him.
This happened to me, Jesus rocks.
Best character change ever.
And He`ll do the same for you, if you`d only ask him ^^.
Now, on the other hand, if this broken man, filled with hatred and pain wouldent have accepted Jesus into his life, but would have gone off to slaughtering the people he hated and their families, and their nabours dog, exploring his not so oppressed toughts of painting and decorating the people he hated with the guts of their family members. He got his revenge, and therfor his need to exist on the planet vanishes. So he picks up a razorblade and slits open his main artery, and slowly fading into eternity. The end.
Now this would be a stupid and annoying turn, since, a) your main character is gone. b) he dident change. c) the story went the way you tought it was doomed to go.
Yes, change is good.
Another reason change is good is that you actually have to watch/read the series to be able to follow the character development. If not you can just jump in in the middle of the season and the same old thing is going on, and apperntly you havent missed a thing.
Interesting how the one argument about “my dead family” sound like a direct cut from Naruto. Really, it’s like hearing Sasuke shouting it inside the back of my head.
Indeed, why have these characters? But then again, why have a character like Jar-Jar Binks in the New Star Wars Trilogy? A pain to the hardcore and the general mass, but loved by some. And I doubt that even if two readers/viewers will hate one character, then they will share this feeling over all annoying characters. After all, it’s about taste.
Character developement can be good. But not in every type of series. Like Ranma, for instance: The predictability of Kuno every time he sees Akane or “Pig-tailed girl” is sort of the fun part of it all. I suppose ut would be the same if Calvin in Calvin&Hobbes changed too much over the years: The elements that we love so much, because we have started to know the character, is what makes us go on with them.
Series like Naruto, Dragonball, One Piece, Shaman King and so on are dependent on character developement. But this shouldn’t neccessarily make it the standard for all series. Examples on the other side would be Ranma 1/2, Cowboy Bebop, Crayon Shinchan, Doraemon and Lupin the 3rd.
Wow, thanks for your comments!
Amazing food for thought this. Will be interesting to see what I think tomorrow when I wake up instead of this midnight answer.
@Argajev - I love your story by the way. Your point of view’s actually pretty awesome, and I completely forgot that specific aspect to story-telling and development. Religion is one of those image-shattering changes you often see portrayed in a person, the ones that really turn the tables on stories, and sort of revitalizes it. I suppose that’s the key-word for that story-trick - revitalization. It’s the kind of twist that permits a story-teller to do major changes to alot of things, radical changes, and still get away with it.
Your final point is probably the crux of it. You mention that change is good because you have to watch it to understand it, and you keep reading to catch the next tidbit of importance.
@Ingar - If it’s of any consolation, I think Sasuke was an inspiration for the character Shinn Asuka in Gundam SEED Destiny. After all, Sasuke’s the most popular character in Naruto, atleast he was in some poll a long time ago, so I am half assuming that they decided to play on that key.
I don’t really mind the kind of stasis you see in i.e. Ranma up to a point, but then it reaches the breaking point where the author seems to have simply lost the inspiration, interest or plan for, well, anything regarding the story as a whole. The reaction of Kuno is funny a few times, but eventually it just grows old, atleast it did for me. Too much stasis for me to enjoy it, perfect examples of series that never truly evolved or changed. Rumiko Takashi(?) is also the creator of InuYasha, another series me and my brother eventually decided was boring and unevolving, with a plot that just didn’t get anywhere, and characters that kept running in circles. I can understand it if they wish to portray developments gently, but even so there’s a limit.
Basing it off of your excellent examples Ingar - One of the reasons I found Dragonball Z to be such an amazing manga is because there were developments, like Vegeta ending up with Bulma being a small point, Gohan growing up and starting to take responsibility, and Piccolo grudgingly acknowledging that there’s more to life than getting rid of it. Shaman King is fun for another reason - there’s a constant trickle of discoveries and revelations about the characters. If the person isn’t receiving an upgrade, you’re seeing a new side of the person, while the relationship between Yoh and Anna’s probably one of the most charming relationships I’ve ever seen in a … err… whatever these mangas are called again. Sho-something. One Piece is just … awesome. ’nuff said.
Naruto’s an oddity, the series, and the character. There’re some pretty heavy changes in Sakura, atleast from what we can tell. She goes from a fawning fan-girl with no spine or purpose to a girl with a focus and something to fight for, even if it’s emo-’tard Sasuke - who’s even less interesting because all he does is whine and cry and moan and bitch. Atleast he develops in an interesting way, and in Shippuuden he’s not whining as much. That’s plenty for me. Actually, all the characters are pretty interesting and well thought through, with the strangest of exceptions - the main character.
My question’s a bit changed thanks to your comments, so now it’s turned into - At what point does a story need to evolve or change to keep the audience interested, and if so, how, or why not?
…wow, wall of text mood today it seems…
Err… *characters as a whole
March 30, 2008
There is no definite answer to this question, at least not to my mind. When the story is communicated, the receiver makes the story his own. It is not the same story.
I get confused just trying to consider this, so I will attempt to shut down any excess philosophy.
To me, what makes something good is talent and dedication. Or, that is where the potential is found.
People connect to somethings, they have associations formed. The why of preference is probably rather complicated, so I’m being short. What usually yields good result is presence. A cliche has power because it connects to base emotion. So the “cheap” story-elements used to move people, do not change according in themselves, but in the syntax. How they are used and relate to the greater whole. This is what is the deciding factor, to the thing itself and the story as a whole.
This is probably a lot like music. There is no accounting for taste, but blindly relying on the base (*Falls over laughing* That was not an intentional pun.) effects will make a cheap product.
Even still, that is not the final word. What I am trying to say is not that cheap effects is a bad thing, it is that you may notice when the artist is lazy. We all enjoy the cheap elements in our own way, they blind us. It seems many are easily amused, but we must also consider that it goes for us as well. We are equally blinded. All in all, quality is not about not using cliches, or the baseline effects, but how you use them, and how you relate to them.
It is, all in all a tricky thing to say anything about. I am just thinking back and forth really. Overusing emotional elements is a disease, it should be purged with fire. Even still, none are immune. The problem is not how it is not good enough. It is how it could be so much better. All of the three writers I know here should be able to relate to how silly things are required, and means far more than they strictly should. We all have our silly preferences. We also know how incredibly irritating the very same things can be when we do not relate to it, or when they are killed by repetition and generally being depended on for making genious.
I have no idea if what I am writing makes any sense to the reader, but I am too lazy to do rethink this. It may be that I disagree with myself on several points. Probably. I would just like to finish with this quote:
“Into the sky, to win, or die!”
*cough* I suspect my only hope for love is women with this attitude:
Calill: Oh, that’s all right.
Actually, I prefer a man who’s a couple links short of a full chain. Makes him more interesting.
March 30, 2008
How I was thinking back and forth is clearly displayed. Just reconstruct the sentence structure according to the principle of ‘the educated guess’ and you should get the proof-read alternative I never bothered with.
I loved the unintentional phun. Awesome stuff.
I’m pretty sure I understand what you were trying to say; that everyone’s different, and that each individual is entertained by the simple things. In addition we all know that everything is built up of many small things, and that sometimes shit becomes too damned big for it’s own legs. In essence.
I’ll see if I can create a good response tomorrow, right now I’m yodeling around some stupid Daily Mail article.
Comments RSS TrackBack Identifier URI
Leave a comment
7 Comments